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The Spalart-Allmaras and the Menter SST kappa-omega turbulence models are shown to have the undesirable characteristic that, for fully turbulent computations, a transition region can occur whose extent varies with grid density. Extremely fine two-dimensional grids over the front portion of an airfoil are used to demonstrate the effect. As the grid density is increased, the laminar region near the nose becomes larger. In the Spalart-Allmaras model this behavior is due to convergence to a laminar-behavior fixed point that occurs in practice when freestream turbulence is below some threshold. It is the result of a feature purposefully added to the original model in conjunction with a special trip function. This degenerate fixed point can also cause nonuniqueness regarding where transition initiates on a given grid. Consistent fully turbulent results can easily be achieved by either using a higher freestream turbulence level or by making a simple change to one of the model constants. Two-equation kappa-omega models, including the SST model, exhibit strong sensitivity to numerical resolution near the area where turbulence initiates. Thus, inconsistent apparent transition behavior with grid refinement in this case does not appear to stem from the presence of a degenerate fixed point. Rather, it is a fundamental property of the kappa-omega model itself, and is not easily remedied.